drift e series - Page 2

badefghia · 31-05-2007, 08:40 PM

when i had my ed xr6 i used to drift it all the time and it kept breaking the bootom contol arms on the diff even had them welded super strong and my cousinhad it at easternats and they snapped after 5 hours had to weld them up again ,..Even with the new diff it still broke but a spool diff and heaps of sideways is always going to break something..

eed-250 · 31-05-2007, 09:26 PM

^ first ive ever heard of that!

Steady ED · 31-05-2007, 09:44 PM

I've heard a theory to get more caster in the front end, mount the LCAs on the wrong sides, to move the lower balljoint mounting forward to get alot more caster, without putting extra strain on LCA to K frame bushe or radius rod.
Never tried it myself, so only theory.
But more caster will make it alot nicer to drift.

Christiaan · 31-05-2007, 10:43 PM

Rollin, I'll chat to ya about coming up to queensland to get ya to fit my lokka.

BI6TIM · 01-06-2007, 12:02 AM

More castor in an e-series is often more trouble than it's worth. It is posible but for the trouble I wouldn't bother.

Camber and toe angles are two things that can be adjusted a fair bit and are worth playing with. The settings you settle on in the end are personal preference though. You will get a different story on how to set up the suspension between me a rolin, if you were to ask us, yet we are both going for the same result: Fast slides and big angle.

So it's hard to say what you should go for because a lot of it is personal prefference.

Steady ED · 01-06-2007, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BI6TIM

More castor in an e-series is often more trouble than it's worth. It is posible but for the trouble I wouldn't bother.

Trouble as in more load on rack?
Or something else?
For something thats never going to see street time I'd trade rack and bush life for a car thats easier to drift.

BI6TIM · 01-06-2007, 11:29 AM

Well if we start to look at the fundamentals of 'castor' it quickly becomes obvious that ford had never intended for it to be adjustable on e-series cars. Castor is the angle at which the front suspension moves upwards on compresion strokes (when you hit a bump or turn into a corner).
On an e-series front suspension set up castor is split between two parts, the strut and the upright that the brake rotor is mounted to.
It is possible to adjust the angle of the ball joint mounted upright but only a certain amount before you start messing with the camber so much that it has a negative overall effect.
With the strut you can only get such a minimal difference in angle that it's not worth it. And for that angle you will need adjustable radius rods and you will go through lower inner bushes like they are going out of fasion. Once a lower inner bushes is worn you will start to destroy outer edges on front tyres as quickly as you can replace those tyres and there is nothing that stops that but new lower inners.

I had a lower inner problem for a while and we messed with the alignment as much as we could to no avail. I ended up with 2.5ish deg neg camber per side and about 4mm toe out to try and stop the outer edges balding but it still didn't work. Eventually Pedders came out with a new polyurethane lower inner design and I haven't had a problem since.

If you're looking for castor, find the best, most trustworthy wheel aligner you can, who will let you tell him what you want and stand there while he does it and ask him to put as much castor into the upright without sacrificing the camber you want. It will take a while but it should be noticable. If it's only a track car tell him you want 2deg neg camber both sides and what ever castor he can manage after that. I would also go with about 2mm total toe in and see how you like the way it steers on the track.

RMCprime · 01-06-2007, 12:45 PM

what sway bar do you recomend for ef

BI6TIM · 01-06-2007, 01:22 PM

What is the car being used for mainly? Front or rear?

Rollin · 01-06-2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuresm58

Rollin, I'll chat to ya about coming up to queensland to get ya to fit my lokka.

Are you going to put a single spinner in? You can't fit them to LSDs, only open centers...

EF_Frmnt · 01-06-2007, 06:33 PM

well ill have to keep my spare diff housing for that then if you can only fit to open centres... i was nearly about to give it away as well

ea_5_spd · 01-06-2007, 06:36 PM

drift drift and drift its not a daily!!!!!!

Steady ED · 01-06-2007, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BI6TIM

It is possible to adjust the angle of the ball joint mounted upright but only a certain amount before you start messing with the camber so much that it has a negative overall effect.

Not being a smart ****, but can you explain that for me?
Negative affect how? Falcons are chronic understeerers on turn in, Ithe only negative I can see out of this is increased steering effort, and subsequent load on rack?
Suspension setup is interesting stuff, if I'm missing anything let me know cause I'd like to learn more

BI6TIM · 02-06-2007, 10:24 PM

Ok, because the top and bottom of the strut and fixed mounting, meaning you bolt them in and that's where they stay (no adjustment), you can't change the angle of the strut (the spring and shock assembly).
You can change the angle of the upright (that the brake rotor mounts to) also reffered to as the 'stub axle'. The way you change the angle of the stub axle is by putting shims in the furthest forward half of the 'camber adjustment kit' and taking them away from the rear half of the kit. This will move the top end of the stub axle rearwards hence creating more camber angle for the stub axle.

The strut in the car will always act in a straight up and down motion on these cars. If we could lay it back a bit so it too had a small positive castor angle, an e-series would be a joy to drive on a track IMO.

You will find that the castor you will achieve from the stub axle will be enough to make a satisfactory difference in the way the car turns. Yeah it might increase steering effort but I don't think it will be enough to stress about.

As for your question on how it will be negatively affected: There is only so far you can go with the 'camber adjustment kits' that are fitted to these cars. If, on an after market camber kit, you have no shims in the back you will only be able to put about 12-15mm worth of shims in the front before you start to get back into the 'less than 2deg' of camber region. If you sacrifice camber for castor you will be no better off.

Also you may have had some bad experiences or just not had a very good setup to date, but to say falcons are chronic understeerers is not true IMO. If you think it's bad trying to drift a falcon thats maybe not setup correctly try doing it in a commodore with the same leval of suspension.
You will, very quickly, get back in the falcon.

If it's still not easy for you to grasp what I'm saying (I feel like I haven't really said it properly but don't know how to say it any better without visual aids) you will find that any "Good" wheel aligner will be able to show you what I mean.

ea_5_spd · 03-06-2007, 11:35 AM

ok kool cheerz 4 the help much appreciated!

Steady ED · 03-06-2007, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BI6TIM

Ok, because the top and bottom of the strut and fixed mounting, meaning you bolt them in and that's where they stay (no adjustment), you can't change the angle of the strut (the spring and shock assembly).
You can change the angle of the upright (that the brake rotor mounts to) also reffered to as the 'stub axle'. The way you change the angle of the stub axle is by putting shims in the furthest forward half of the 'camber adjustment kit' and taking them away from the rear half of the kit. This will move the top end of the stub axle rearwards hence creating more camber angle for the stub axle.

The strut in the car will always act in a straight up and down motion on these cars. If we could lay it back a bit so it too had a small positive castor angle, an e-series would be a joy to drive on a track IMO.

You will find that the castor you will achieve from the stub axle will be enough to make a satisfactory difference in the way the car turns. Yeah it might increase steering effort but I don't think it will be enough to stress about.

As for your question on how it will be negatively affected: There is only so far you can go with the 'camber adjustment kits' that are fitted to these cars. If, on an after market camber kit, you have no shims in the back you will only be able to put about 12-15mm worth of shims in the front before you start to get back into the 'less than 2deg' of camber region. If you sacrifice camber for castor you will be no better off.

Also you may have had some bad experiences or just not had a very good setup to date, but to say falcons are chronic understeerers is not true IMO. If you think it's bad trying to drift a falcon thats maybe not setup correctly try doing it in a commodore with the same leval of suspension.
You will, very quickly, get back in the falcon.

If it's still not easy for you to grasp what I'm saying (I feel like I haven't really said it properly but don't know how to say it any better without visual aids) you will find that any "Good" wheel aligner will be able to show you what I mean.

Okay I get what you are saying now, I was referring to mounting the LCAs on the wrong sides to gain more castor, not shimming the upper arms.
As opposed to laying the stub axle back from the top arm, using the wrong side LCA would push the bottom of the stub axle forward, also wouldn't put stress on LCA to K frame bushes, or radius rod bushes.
May put more stress on balljoints because of increased angle, dunno.
Its all theory anyway, might try it one day if I can be fooked.

Also even if we could lay the strut back, it wouldn't affect castor.
Yay for no MacPherson struts!

TUFED6 · 03-06-2007, 03:28 PM

The part number for the KAAZ 2-way for a Falcon is dag3820.

http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/i...owtopic=228174

The guys in the above link are selling them for $1250 shipped with a can of KAAZ LSD oil.

I've got a spool, and they are a bit of a pain in the *** in the street, not very carpark friendly. For my purposes I'd probably go for the Lokka for half the price.