RANT - Old people on our roads

[outback_chick]

Ok well.....
Number One - I dont care how old you are I believe you should have frequent driving tests. ALOT of people start their own bad habbits causeing accidents.
Number Two - I have to admit I love my car and I have bought all three of my cars outright.
Number Three - I absolutely cannot stand the fact that young P platers are allowed to get around in the NEW NEW cars... they dont respect their car... nor other people on the road and most of them probably have mummys and daddys that pay for their car and Insurance and so none of them would actually realise the true value of the car. I know I'm only 21 but I saved up for around 6 months to purchase my first ute at 1200, It was my pride and joy.. it wasnt the best thing ever but I had a car and I respected that and to be honest I was never a hoon, I never took Learners Lessons and I past my test first time -

I think its too easy to get a license. I believe it should be at 21 and same with alcohol -Like everyone says kids arent responsible enough and I Dont think I could class many 18yr olds as adults. Too immature - my sister has got her license and just turned 18 I cannot believe she is driving on the road its a scary though (not her driving) but because she is so immature and its all a game for them showing off and boys... when I'm in the car with her all she does is fix makeup or brush her hair and make sure her sunnies look good... I feel like saying JUST BLOODY CONCENTRATE.

And what about mobiles.... EVERYONE from a teenager to a mum with kids in the backseat... uses a mobile phone IT ANNOYS ME!!!! They dont concentrate... they think they are... but they are either being selfish and not realising how fast they are going... (doing 20kms under the speed limit) they dont look in all mirrors I almost had an accident with one guy who went to move in my lane while I was passing him and because he had his phone in his right hand he didnt check his blind spot.... GRRR I was so mad...

To be honest with you not one person I know.... Sticks by all the road rules.... NOT ONE.... can you honestly be true with yourself and Say that you have???



Anyways thats my rant and rave.... :P Wow that feels better....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by vanman_75

you live in hervey bay eh ,you would know more than most. how much has that place changed in 25 years , stupid traffic lights for all these younger people that are in such a hurry ,they couldnt work out a roundabout ,the older people are not slow ,mostly. its just that everyone is just so damn fast .

Actually the roundabout that was changed to traffic lights (BHD & Central Av) was done so mostly because of the constant crashes and near misses involving backpackers in minibusses and "wicked" vans.

[ST]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes when we just got our licences we didn't have SMS, ipods, the internet, constant violence and society was very different.

No kids were bankrupt because their high speed interelect could not understand the concept of interest and repayments.
If you saw a school kid on a train carrying a military rifle, you complemented them of their patriotism not rang 000 and peed yourself.
There were no speed cameras, and if fact many places had no speed limits, we didnt need them as most people were intelligent enough to know when to go fast and when to go slow. There was not a hoon problem with the constant doof doof in the background, when we raced we went out into woop woop because we did not want to annoy others.
We had to work and save up for what ever we wanted and a credit card was something that was a reward from the banks for many years of credible and intelligent operation of banking facilities not a crab pot for catching dumb children.

We thought that by employing technology to assist our lives we would improve society as a whole and in some ways it has worked but THERE WAS ONE HUGE PROBLEM.

We have inadvertantly created a whole generation of self centred, arrogant, impudent, ignorant, financially naive, insular children who truly believe that because they are allowed to use the technology THAT WE INVENTED aquired with money THAT WE GAVE THEM they are some how superior to us.

So shut down your computer that we invented, disconnect your interenet that we invented, and drive your car that we designed on the roads that we built to somewhere where YOU CAN DO SOMETHING TO IMPROVE THE WORLD INSTEAD OF JUST COMPLAINING ABOUT US AND BLAMING US FOR YOUR PROBLEMS.

So in your words kids used to be intelligent, generous, modest, financially secure, obedient and completely road safe? Why has the road toll dramatically decreased since 'your' time? Why have national average scores of schools greatly increased? Hoons didn't appear yesterday, go and ask any kid about the stories his dad has told him about being able to drag race anywhere and not getting caught. There was no hoon problem because the road rules were no where near as enforced as they are today. Why were all these speed limits brought in? Because a lot of people from your time weren't using common sense and were being too dangerous. You can't blame todays youth for speed limits when they were here before most of them were even born.

I can't see HOW you got the idea that there is a 'sudden' increase in violence, is it because that's what is reported so much in the media now? You are kidding yourself there, there was as much if not more violence from your time. My dad has told me about a lot of things that happened to his mates back when he was a teenager.

The reason a lot of young adults loan and get themselves in debt is due to the MASSIVE price inflation since 'your' time. A decent car isn't a grand anymore, it's 10. Renting isn't $50 anymore, it's 300. I certainly do not see where you got the concept of kids thinking they are superior because they know how to use all this technology you and your mates have invented in your backyard for them.

People will always be the same, they just adapt to what they have around them and what they have to work with. It's all well and fair to say it's too easy to get a license today, but I do not see how you older members are in any position to say anything considering you got your license under MUCH easier conditions and at a younger age.

Everybody on this forum is so easy to pass the blame on young drivers, yet when we find older people driving poorly there is a massive backlash. I think you all need to understand that yes P-Platers are a problem BUT so are many other drivers (old and not so old) and from this the other with a large accident/problem rate is senior drivers. If you took all P-Platers off the road now do you honestly think it would turn the road into your magic happy land of brilliant and obedient driving from 30's years ago again? No? Well lets understand what the other causes are then and establish our thoughts on a solution there.

[Fev]

Originally Posted by RTSW

So in your words kids used to be intelligent, generous, modest, financially secure, obedient and completely road safe? Why has the road toll dramatically decreased since 'your' time? Why have national average scores of schools greatly increased? Hoons didn't appear yesterday, go and ask any kid about the stories his dad has told him about being able to drag race anywhere and not getting caught. There was no hoon problem because the road rules were no where near as enforced as they are today. Why were all these speed limits brought in? Because a lot of people from your time weren't using common sense and were being too dangerous. You can't blame todays youth for speed limits when they were here before most of them were even born.

I can't see HOW you got the idea that there is a 'sudden' increase in violence, is it because that's what is reported so much in the media now? You are kidding yourself there, there was as much if not more violence from your time. My dad has told me about a lot of things that happened to his mates back when he was a teenager.

The reason a lot of young adults loan and get themselves in debt is due to the MASSIVE price inflation since 'your' time. A decent car isn't a grand anymore, it's 10. Renting isn't $50 anymore, it's 300. I certainly do not see where you got the concept of kids thinking they are superior because they know how to use all this technology you and your mates have invented in your backyard for them.

People will always be the same, they just adapt to what they have around them and what they have to work with. It's all well and fair to say it's too easy to get a license today, but I do not see how you older members are in any position to say anything considering you got your license under MUCH easier conditions and at a younger age.

Everybody on this forum is so easy to pass the blame on young drivers, yet when we find older people driving poorly there is a massive backlash. I think you all need to understand that yes P-Platers are a problem BUT so are many other drivers (old and not so old) and from this the other with a large accident/problem rate is senior drivers. If you took all P-Platers off the road now do you honestly think it would turn the road into your magic happy land of brilliant and obedient driving from 30's years ago again? No? Well lets understand what the other causes are then and establish our thoughts on a solution there.

Well said!

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by RTSW

Everybody on this forum is so easy to pass the blame on young drivers

everyone (not just on this forum) is quick to pass the blame onto someone else, anyone as long as it is not them
everyone should aim to be a better, more tolerant driver instead of blaming trucks, motorcycles, cars, bicycles, roadworks, taxis, old, young, people who turn without indicating, people who drive faster/slower, cutting through servo's etc. etc. etc. etc.
everyone should build a bridge and get on with becoming a safer and more observant driver

obviously i am one of the few people, who is not perfect and makes mistakes on the road. it is amazing considering how perfect everyone else is, that none of my mistakes have cost me in over 21 years

[flappist]

Originally Posted by RTSW

So in your words kids used to be intelligent, generous, modest, financially secure, obedient and completely road safe?

Intelligent; about the same.
Generous; yes we used to share things and help others
Modest; about the same
Financially secure; much more so as we did not have much credit
Obedient; yes because if we were loud mouth smart ***** we got a clip around the ears from teachers, parents, police or whomever and did not cry to "1800 I AM A WUSS" that we were being oppressed. This led to us realising that we had to fit into society and it was not "all about us".
Road Safe; we used to drive at speed, after drinking at all hours and no one ever got hurt. We did not do silly things in town though.

Originally Posted by RTSW

Why has the road toll dramatically decreased since 'your' time? Why have national average scores of schools greatly increased? Hoons didn't appear yesterday, go and ask any kid about the stories his dad has told him about being able to drag race anywhere and not getting caught. There was no hoon problem because the road rules were no where near as enforced as they are today. Why were all these speed limits brought in? Because a lot of people from your time weren't using common sense and were being too dangerous. You can't blame todays youth for speed limits when they were here before most of them were even born.

There are actually far more accidents just less fatal ones. I wonder if this may be because cars are now fitted with IR seat belts, airbags, radial tyres, crumple zones, ABS brakes, power steering, collapsing steering colums etc.

Originally Posted by RTSW

I can't see HOW you got the idea that there is a 'sudden' increase in violence, is it because that's what is reported so much in the media now? You are kidding yourself there, there was as much if not more violence from your time. My dad has told me about a lot of things that happened to his mates back when he was a teenager.

Because back then if you you did violent thing to innocent people you get locked up for a long time and did not have the protection of the social engineers. Now if your home is invaded or you are attacked and you hurt the attacker defending yourself you get charged with a crime.

Originally Posted by RTSW

The reason a lot of young adults loan and get themselves in debt is due to the MASSIVE price inflation since 'your' time. A decent car isn't a grand anymore, it's 10. Renting isn't $50 anymore, it's 300. I certainly do not see where you got the concept of kids thinking they are superior because they know how to use all this technology you and your mates have invented in your backyard for them.

No the reason is that this is the "I WANT IT NOW" generation and although prices are higher, so are wages. We had to save up and at $55 per week less rent and food it took a while to save up a "grand" or about one fifth the price of a new car. How much is a new XR6T? 50k? so that makes $10k about a fifth. You want a 6 or 7 year old car not a 15 year old one like we had to buy because the 6 year old ones were too expensive don't you? Do you earn more that $55 per week?

Originally Posted by RTSW

People will always be the same, they just adapt to what they have around them and what they have to work with. It's all well and fair to say it's too easy to get a license today, but I do not see how you older members are in any position to say anything considering you got your license under MUCH easier conditions and at a younger age.

Yes much easier. It was really easy to learn to drive when no one had cars for you to drive and you hade to be 17 to get a learners not 16.
In my year 12 class only 3 people had cars and about 10 had licences.

Originally Posted by RTSW

Everybody on this forum is so easy to pass the blame on young drivers, yet when we find older people driving poorly there is a massive backlash. I think you all need to understand that yes P-Platers are a problem BUT so are many other drivers (old and not so old) and from this the other with a large accident/problem rate is senior drivers. If you took all P-Platers off the road now do you honestly think it would turn the road into your magic happy land of brilliant and obedient driving from 30's years ago again? No? Well lets understand what the other causes are then and establish our thoughts on a solution there.

No it is our fault. We have allowed you to become what you are and now we have to work out how to solve it because you won't.....

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by flappist

Intelligent; about the same.
Generous; yes we used to share things and help others
Modest; about the same
Financially secure; much more so as we did not have much credit
Obedient; yes because if we were loud mouth smart ***** we got a clip around the ears from teachers, parents, police or whomever and did not cry to "1800 I AM A WUSS" that we were being oppressed. This led to us realising that we had to fit into society and it was not "all about us".
Road Safe; we used to drive at speed, after drinking at all hours and no one ever got hurt. We did not do silly things in town though.
There are actually far more accidents just less fatal ones. I wonder if this may be because cars are now fitted with IR seat belts, airbags, radial tyres, crumple zones, ABS brakes, power steering, collapsing steering colums etc.

Because back then if you you did violent thing to innocent people you get locked up for a long time and did not have the protection of the social engineers. Now if your home is invaded or you are attacked and you hurt the attacker defending yourself you get charged with a crime.

No the reason is that this is the "I WANT IT NOW" generation and although prices are higher, so are wages. We had to save up and at $55 per week less rent and food it took a while to save up a "grand" or about one fifth the price of a new car. How much is a new XR6T? 50k? so that makes $10k about a fifth. You want a 6 or 7 year old car not a 15 year old one like we had to buy because the 6 year old ones were too expensive don't you? Do you earn more that $55 per week?

Yes much easier. It was really easy to learn to drive when no one had cars for you to drive and you hade to be 17 to get a learners not 16.
In my year 12 class only 3 people had cars and about 10 had licences.

No it is our fault. We have allowed you to become what you are and now we have to work out how to solve it because you won't.....

and that is a fact

[GasoLane]

Oh dear....

Originally Posted by RTSW

There was no hoon problem because the road rules were no where near as enforced as they are today.

True, it was actually FUN to drive then

Originally Posted by RTSW

Why were all these speed limits brought in? Because a lot of people from your time weren't using common sense and were being too dangerous.

Wrong. it's because various government found out (when speed limits were introduced) that they could make buckets of money by enforcing them.

Originally Posted by RTSW

I can't see HOW you got the idea that there is a 'sudden' increase in violence, is it because that's what is reported so much in the media now? You are kidding yourself there, there was as much if not more violence from your time. My dad has told me about a lot of things that happened to his mates back when he was a teenager.

Hmm, I lived in Melb way back then and 90% of violence was confined to the Wharf's or the Mafia..........The original one, not the wannabe's you get now.

Originally Posted by RTSW

The reason a lot of young adults loan and get themselves in debt is due to the MASSIVE price inflation since 'your' time. A decent car isn't a grand anymore, it's 10. Renting isn't $50 anymore, it's 300.

Right. And the average wage was about $700 back then?

Originally Posted by RTSW

but I do not see how you older members are in any position to say anything considering you got your license under MUCH easier conditions and at a younger age.

True. It was dead easy to get a license back then. Myself and most of my mates used to drive everywhere, on highways, at 70mph (At the time I had a Saab the topped out at 95mph -150kmh- and thats what it got driven at).


I used to drive the Hume every night (in a Truck) and we adopted the saying that 'Dying at your job is nature's way of saying you're in the wrong line of work'

Used to work pretty well for people that could'nt drive back then as well

[ST]

Originally Posted by flappist

Intelligent; about the same.
Generous; yes we used to share things and help others
Modest; about the same
Financially secure; much more so as we did not have much credit
Obedient; yes because if we were loud mouth smart ***** we got a clip around the ears from teachers, parents, police or whomever and did not cry to "1800 I AM A WUSS" that we were being oppressed. This led to us realising that we had to fit into society and it was not "all about us".
Road Safe; we used to drive at speed, after drinking at all hours and no one ever got hurt. We did not do silly things in town though.
There are actually far more accidents just less fatal ones. I wonder if this may be because cars are now fitted with IR seat belts, airbags, radial tyres, crumple zones, ABS brakes, power steering, collapsing steering colums etc.

You give me the road accident statistics of your days to compare with todays and i'd like to see your reaction when you realise that in fact there are much less accidents to amount of transport on road ratio in all cases now. Even you should admit to this. Nobody ever got hurt when people used to drink drive at all hours? Did you get enough sleep last night? I'll let you read that one again and decide if you'd like to retract that remark.

Don't give me the clip on the ears story, kids were as disobedient as they are now. You could get away with a lot more back then without anybody knowing or hearing about it. Now every man and his dog sees what people are up to and lets everybody know about it.

Originally Posted by flappist

Because back then if you you did violent thing to innocent people you get locked up for a long time and did not have the protection of the social engineers. Now if your home is invaded or you are attacked and you hurt the attacker defending yourself you get charged with a crime.

I'm sorry? The guy that smashed my dads friends head into the concrete killing him got away with what he did. The guy who destroyed my dads pride and joy XC got away with it. Justice wasn't right back then and it isn't now either. Don't even compare the 2, justice and law have never been right and nobody should accept the way it was or how it is now till it is truly right (which we know will never happen).

Originally Posted by flappist

No the reason is that this is the "I WANT IT NOW" generation and although prices are higher, so are wages. We had to save up and at $55 per week less rent and food it took a while to save up a "grand" or about one fifth the price of a new car. How much is a new XR6T? 50k? so that makes $10k about a fifth. You want a 6 or 7 year old car not a 15 year old one like we had to buy because the 6 year old ones were too expensive don't you? Do you earn more that $55 per week?

Wages aren't as great as you might think, you should know people struggle a lot more to make ends meet now due to EVERYTHING being much more expensive; fuel, food, water, electricity, renting, transport etc... Kids are aware of the high costs for everything so they want quality products that may cost more outright but end up saving money in the long run (low maintenance, better efficiency etc) that is why they buy more modern cars.

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes much easier. It was really easy to learn to drive when no one had cars for you to drive and you hade to be 17 to get a learners not 16.
In my year 12 class only 3 people had cars and about 10 had licences.

I'm not talking about the situation of car availability in your family. I'm talking about how easy it was to OBTAIN your license, as in the TEST. That is what you argued and it is without doubt much much easier to obtain a license in your day than it is now.

Originally Posted by flappist

No it is our fault. We have allowed you to become what you are and now we have to work out how to solve it because you won't.....

That is an incredibly arrogant self-righteous thing to say. Well i'll let you know what we have become is Australia's smartest, most aware, multicultural and fastest thinking youth.

I feel the only solution needed is one to open the eyes of the adult/senior public and let them actually see the statistics of today instead of reading the paper/watching the news and blatantly swallowing the attention grabbing chaos they spout. There are plenty of problem kids/teens, but there always has been and there always will be. Generalising us all into the same category as them is ignorant and degrading. I think you need to have a look at other countries and see what is really wrong today.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by RTSW

That is an incredibly arrogant self-righteous thing to say. Well i'll let you know what we have become is Australia's smartest, most aware, multicultural and fastest thinking youth.

Ok super trooper, lets see you add up a line of numbers or do long division or a 5 digit multiplication in your head without a calculator......

Lets hear your knowlege of history, physics, or in fact anything without access to Google.....

Originally Posted by RTSW

I feel the only solution needed is one to open the eyes of the adult/senior public and let them actually see the statistics of today instead of reading the paper/watching the news and blatantly swallowing the attention grabbing chaos they spout. There are plenty of problem kids/teens, but there always has been and there always will be. Generalising us all into the same category as them is ignorant and degrading. I think you need to have a look at other countries and see what is really wrong today.

This would be based on what you have seen in all the other countries you have been to....

The problem is simple. Older people have actually experienced these things you talk about, you have just read about them. It is not your fault. When I was 20 I used to argue with my father over driving and cars in general. What would he know. He only used to actually run the Australian division of a motor vehicle manufacturer. As I got older I learned that a lot of the ideas I had when I was young were actually quite silly and I should have listened to older people.

I didn't, you won't and neither will your children or their children.......

[outback_chick]

Originally Posted by RTSW

That is an incredibly arrogant self-righteous thing to say. Well i'll let you know what we have become is Australia's smartest, most aware, multicultural and fastest thinking youth.

I'm sorry.... but I completely disagree with that statement... Todays youth is so screwed up and selfish.... definately not the smartest and definately not aware of what their actions are causing globally... and fastest thinking? I think they are probably one of the most ignorant generation ever.... NO RESPECT ...and I'm 21.


How old are you RTSW? under 20? or around that age..... you may speak intelligent but why dont you actually read between the lines.. your wrong... THE MAJORITY of youth today.... have got their heads on backwards.... you may be one that does not but do you seriously think as a whole that we are Australia's smartest, most aware, multicultural and fastest thinking youth because I sure as hell dont.. out of your classes how many would go through uni and succeed..how many become doctors lawyers engineers...We have shortages everywhere all over australia and what about unemployment rate??. how many would have a clue about anything other than what they want to pay interest to? Narrow-minded youth...selfish and lazy.. :P

[outback_chick]

By the way this thread should be renamed to Battle of the Ages... :P:P:P

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by outback_chick

THE MAJORITY of youth today.... have got their heads on backwards....

Aha! That explains it. They're all wearing hoodies and trying to look like gangsta's but cant see out the back!!

[ST]

Originally Posted by flappist

Ok super trooper, lets see you add up a line of numbers or do long division or a 5 digit multiplication in your head without a calculator......

Lets hear your knowlege of history, physics, or in fact anything without access to Google.....

Believe it or not but the majority of school work today is still done with a pen and paper. Teachers don't tell their students to search the internet all day.

I am not suggesting all the kids/teens of today are geniuses, simply that as proven national education averages have improved greatly. Which means in general most youth are better educated.

Originally Posted by flappist

This would be based on what you have seen in all the other countries you have been to....

The problem is simple. Older people have actually experienced these things you talk about, you have just read about them. It is not your fault. When I was 20 I used to argue with my father over driving and cars in general. What would he know. He only used to actually run the Australian division of a motor vehicle manufacturer. As I got older I learned that a lot of the ideas I had when I was young were actually quite silly and I should have listened to older people.

I didn't, you won't and neither will your children or their children.......

What have older people experienced? 30 years ago? Well guess what, you haven't experienced today as a youth. It's a completely different world to the one you are typing on this board.

Everybody expresses their own opinions and a subject such as this, you can't just say older people are right. Because as much as they'd like to, they don't know everything. ESPECIALLY about youth and society today. Fair enough you have experienced 30 years ago and you are able to communicate that, but it doesn't mean you know all of todays problems wrapped up in an 18 year old basket.

The world is still advancing, Australia's society hasn't fallen apart and Australia has no major youth crisis. I don't like being called a problem and I find that statement to be very insulting. We aren't all that is wrong with Australia, you need to remember that instead of putting everything else out of the picture.

[outback_chick]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Aha! That explains it. They're all wearing hoodies and trying to look like gangsta's but cant see out the back!!

And that explains the pants they wear half way down their butt .... because they are trying to fit into pants that are way to big for them... :P dont forget the diamond stud earrings and.. the big truckers caps....

[ST]

Originally Posted by outback_chick

I'm sorry.... but I completely disagree with that statement... Todays youth is so screwed up and selfish.... definately not the smartest and definately not aware of what their actions are causing globally... and fastest thinking? I think they are probably one of the most ignorant generation ever.... NO RESPECT ...and I'm 21.

How are they the most screwed up and selfish? This is a question and it's not rhetorical, i'd actually like to know. Because in my experience, even though I have met quite a few that fall under that description, the vast majority have been pretty switched on, obviously still a bit immature and 'wet behind the ears'. But I was very surprised how many actually aren't what you would think they are. We are a very judgemental society and are quicker to judge than we are to understand, thats a flaw we all share. Old or young.

Originally Posted by outback_chick

How old are you RTSW? under 20? or around that age..... you may speak intelligent but why dont you actually read between the lines.. your wrong... THE MAJORITY of youth today.... have got their heads on backwards.... you may be one that does not but do you seriously think as a whole that we are Australia's smartest, most aware, multicultural and fastest thinking youth because I sure as hell dont.. out of your classes how many would go through uni and succeed..how many become doctors lawyers engineers...We have shortages everywhere all over australia and what about unemployment rate??. how many would have a clue about anything other than what they want to pay interest to? Narrow-minded youth...selfish and lazy.. :P

Well it's a bold statement to say i'm wrong and follow it up with a subjective answer. I'm not wrong, nor are you and neither is flappist. We are sharing our experiences (and what we have learned, read etc) and debating them between ourselves. We all have our idea on how things are and it is all greatly influenced by our experiences. But none of us can really say we are truly correct, because we only have our own experience and one perspective to see everything.

[GasoLane]

Perhaps we should get these guys to patrol the roads......http://www.ccleaner.com :

[Fev]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

and that is a fact

fact or not the argument is useless, Life has changed and its never going to go back there, so using the past as a defense isnt gonna prove anything, sure it can be an opinion but it has no effect whatso ever on what is happening nowa days. and the fact that i have been in and seen accidents caused wholy by people over the age of 65 then any other age group i see it as a dangerous demographic of people that are allowed to drive without being tested for hand/eye skills, sight and even their state of mind..

[Fev]

Originally Posted by outback_chick

And that explains the pants they wear half way down their butt .... because they are trying to fit into pants that are way to big for them... :P dont forget the diamond stud earrings and.. the big truckers caps....

who the hell other then ashton kutcher wears truckers caps nowadays?

and my pants are that low because i find it comfortable!! lol

[outback_chick]

Originally Posted by RTSW

Well it's a bold statement to say i'm wrong and follow it up with a subjective answer. I'm not wrong, nor are you and neither is flappist. We are sharing our experiences (and what we have learned, read etc) and debating them between ourselves. We all have our idea on how things are and it is all greatly influenced by our experiences. But none of us can really say we are truly correct, because we only have our own experience and one perspective to see everything.

Ok then I admit, you are not wrong in what you say and I do apologise and I never said I was completely right my opinions are opinions... but you are fighting for a majority of people that you have witnessed in your experiences and I guess I'm debating on behalf of the people I have seen, compared to the olden days I believe this world is fast paced and advancing yes... but why is it that this youth is so disrespectful then? Compared to old... I did not think that the world changing and as it is today would have anything to do with lack of respect... I guess we agree to disagree I suppose it all depends on the environment you are brought up in and yes the experiences you go through.

I really dont think its fair though that you give so much credit to todays society and youth. Considering the hard workers came from generations before this one... this generation is just lapping it up. Then the next generation will have to fix their mistakes and then the next one work hard again and then the next to screw it up again.... its a vicious circle..

[outback_chick]

Originally Posted by Fev

who the hell other then ashton kutcher wears truckers caps nowadays?

and my pants are that low because i find it comfortable!! lol

Well my sister is 18 and her fella is 17 and he wears all that stylish stuff LOL and when I was a manager at a retail company all the younger kids under me wore all that stuff coming and going from work... lol

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by flappist

Intelligent; about the same.
Generous; yes we used to share things and help others
Modest; about the same
Financially secure; much more so as we did not have much credit
Obedient; yes because if we were loud mouth smart ***** we got a clip around the ears from teachers, parents, police or whomever and did not cry to "1800 I AM A WUSS" that we were being oppressed. This led to us realising that we had to fit into society and it was not "all about us".
Road Safe; we used to drive at speed, after drinking at all hours and no one ever got hurt. We did not do silly things in town though.
There are actually far more accidents just less fatal ones. I wonder if this may be because cars are now fitted with IR seat belts, airbags, radial tyres, crumple zones, ABS brakes, power steering, collapsing steering colums etc.

Because back then if you you did violent thing to innocent people you get locked up for a long time and did not have the protection of the social engineers. Now if your home is invaded or you are attacked and you hurt the attacker defending yourself you get charged with a crime.

No the reason is that this is the "I WANT IT NOW" generation and although prices are higher, so are wages. We had to save up and at $55 per week less rent and food it took a while to save up a "grand" or about one fifth the price of a new car. How much is a new XR6T? 50k? so that makes $10k about a fifth. You want a 6 or 7 year old car not a 15 year old one like we had to buy because the 6 year old ones were too expensive don't you? Do you earn more that $55 per week?

Yes much easier. It was really easy to learn to drive when no one had cars for you to drive and you hade to be 17 to get a learners not 16.
In my year 12 class only 3 people had cars and about 10 had licences.

No it is our fault. We have allowed you to become what you are and now we have to work out how to solve it because you won't.....

Game, set and match really.

The "must have it now" generation has largely spawned from financial institutions throwing money at anyone who can legibly sign their name, and the schooling system educating kids to challenge authority (regardless of merit) and what their rights are, rather than what their responsibilities are... "spoilt greedy anti authoritarian brat" syndrome...
It shows up in driver attitude... not to mention behaviour in general towards older people or authority.

[|||]

parents are to blame. its strange that the parents who created the kids with the "need it now" attitude are the same age the people who always complain things were better in their day when kids were well behaved.

you reap what you sow.

[ST]

Originally Posted by outback_chick

Ok then I admit, you are not wrong in what you say and I do apologise and I never said I was completely right my opinions are opinions... but you are fighting for a majority of people that you have witnessed in your experiences and I guess I'm debating on behalf of the people I have seen, compared to the olden days I believe this world is fast paced and advancing yes... but why is it that this youth is so disrespectful then? Compared to old... I did not think that the world changing and as it is today would have anything to do with lack of respect... I guess we agree to disagree I suppose it all depends on the environment you are brought up in and yes the experiences you go through.

I really dont think its fair though that you give so much credit to todays society and youth. Considering the hard workers came from generations before this one... this generation is just lapping it up. Then the next generation will have to fix their mistakes and then the next one work hard again and then the next to screw it up again.... its a vicious circle..

Yet again, experiences. I have honestly not met a whole lot of youths completely disrespectful to adults. I've met plenty of disobedient kids, but so many respect their parents and elders it astounds me that people generalise on all of us that this is how we are. Even in your experience surely you have met plenty of respectful and level-headed people your age or around your age?

I'm giving todays society a bit of credit because NOBODY does. Is Austalia's society completely up the $h!tter? No. Is our economy fairly well? Yes. Are we much more tolerant of other races and people? Yes. There is plenty of good things you can say about today, but nothing is perfect.

The hard working statement, of course there are the bludgers. Like everything they will always be here. But there is without doubt plenty of people doing the hard yards just like 'back in the day'. With everything there is a negative. There were plenty of people decades ago doing stuff all and getting paid for it, there are plenty now, there are plenty tomorrow. These are things that are a given.

[ST]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

and the schooling system educating kids to challenge authority (regardless of merit) and what their rights are, rather than what their responsibilities are... "spoilt greedy anti authoritarian brat" syndrome...

Where did you pull this from? The local tip? Where has this idea of activist hippy teachers of the modern age spawned from? What a load of garbage. Not one teacher has ever told me anything of the sort, nor any of my friends, relatives or known people from school. You've been told an absolute WHOPPER there.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by RTSW

Where has this idea of activist hippy teachers of the modern age spawned from?

Certainly not from the left wing teachers.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by RTSW

Where did you pull this from? The local tip? Where has this idea of activist hippy teachers of the modern age spawned from? What a load of garbage. Not one teacher has ever told me anything of the sort, nor any of my friends, relatives or known people from school. You've been told an absolute WHOPPER there.

You seem so angry.

I wondered why so I looked up your history and discovered that you are 20 years old and yet you have not held a drivers licence for 12 months.

What??? 3 years on a learners permit and you are telling us all how to drive and what is wrong with the transport system.....

[ST]

What? What kind of immature response is that? I am also in fact 19 years old and I obtained it when I was 18. I was also 2 years on my learners. If you'd like to try personal attacks, get the right information. I wouldn't expect such a childish attack from you. This seems like a frustrated response you've made, if you can't make ground intellectually you insult the other to make yourself feel better.

I'm not angry at all, I just have to wonder where 4vman has got the idea of all of todays teachers telling kids their rights and that they should challenge authority. It's absolutely absurd.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by RTSW

What? What kind of immature response is that? I am also in fact 19 years old and I obtained it when I was 18. I was also 2 years on my learners. If you'd like to try personal attacks, get the right information. I wouldn't expect such a childish attack from you. This seems like a frustrated response you've made, if you can't make ground intellectually you insult the other to make yourself feel better.

I'm not angry at all, I just have to wonder where 4vman has got the idea of these teachers telling people their rights and to challenge authority. It's absolutely absurd.

Oh sorry, my mistake, only TWO YEARS

My two girls and most of their friends got theirs in a matter of months......

[ST]

Ok...? I could obtain my learners at the earliest age of 16 so I got them then. I got my P's at 18 because that was the earliest I could get them.

I don't get what you are trying to make fun of here.